The fifth column

[matrixmann]

Lobby groups - grassroots - enterprises - paid suit whores - it's hard to tell the truth between all these things. Everyone works for the well-being of his interests. Even those ones which tell you all the time they want to do something for you. And they grab all nessecary means what it takes to get their interests realized. Be it a group that commits itself to refugees or that campaigns against them - where do you wanna know from if not on both sides money-heavy interest groups stand and want to get their will? Where do you wanna know from if it's a conspiracy theory?
The world is not seperated in angels and devils. Everyone's got his dots on the vest.
All like to make money out of you. They all like to make some profit out of you which gives them power over a part of the world.
It's not like capitalistic habits made their way around civil rights advocacy groups.

Comments

[red-child.livejournal.com]

And if someone wanted to see people do well out of being selfishly invested in the future of their species?

[matrixmann]

I don't liguistically understand what you mean.
Can you put that phrase differently?

[red-child.livejournal.com]

If someone fought to see people do well, with their motivation being in personal values to, say, make sure that humanity was better off in ten years than it is today... With this person's self-service being in that they clung to their ideals/values, even when it didn't seem they could achieve a goal those ideals/values had set for them...
What would you make of that? What's your interpretation should that ever happen?

[matrixmann]

If someone got upon that idea...
I'd say it was noble, but I don't believe in that anymore. I don't believe in any one that happening anymore.
And even if people start with something noble, I don't believe in it staying so over time. Even less when the founders are gone, dead.
Reason is the following: 1) corruption; 2) naivete - people believe so much in doing something good, in collecting money and donating it, it's going to change something, in opening up single facilities making the world a better place at this location, and in the end they got no idea about what the world really works like. About structures, concrete structures. They don't get sure where their money truly ends up - charity is a huge money-laundering machine as well as a money-generating machine, just think about for how long you know the donations for food and schools for children in Africa -, they either work together with official institutions and associations of states - which are going to abuse them for other purposes also, like coups -, or they grow too big as associations and are too full themselves, their personnel goes out of control and does things they shouldn't; and 3) if you really wanna change anything in the world, it might be it won't work without battle-readiness, because this century is no more the time of kings getting fearful if they simply see their servants protesting on the street - the current kings reigning the world learned "if you let them satisfy their need to protest, they also gonna go home again", simple protest rallies don't frighten them anymore to change something in their concept.

And all these factors, I don't see mankind so soon taking them into their calculation or being mentally ready and willing to accept that state of reality.
They still try to change the world with the means that impressed somebody in the last century.

[red-child.livejournal.com]

Humans don't apply the knowledge they've learned, don't understand the virtues they think they're standing for. Everything they know to be right isn't put into practice, isn't accounted for. Everything they believe in is abandoned in practice, is left without adherence. The whole species isn't just flawed, it's a hopeless, maladaptive, controlling and undisciplined failure.
Everything is shallow, when we have minds that could rise to seeing things so very deeply. The human species had attained mass freedom and knowledge, and it's chosen to be a disappointment.

I'm familiar with most of your discomforts, your disfavoring the current nature of man. It's one way of looking at it that captures honesty in seeing the world.
There's more than one way to go about killing someone. If you plan, get the resources you need and adapt to the situations you face, you really don't have to fail.

[matrixmann]

I've been already over the solution "kill them all!" for a long time. Just - somebody could also get upon that idea and I'd be one of those he had chosen to die too. So, can't want that...

And, first and indisputable, I see the system that surrounds humans and keeps them in their pathways is something that is reasponsible for the state of things. All others things one could think about if that had been replaced with something else.
You see, if you surround people with something else as a system to daily function in, you can already tickle different behavior out of them.
The only thing is: Even if you try to do this, you need to wait until the current system is that weak and hollow inside that it doesn't have the power anymore to corrupt somebody. That it offers so less that barely anyone lets himself be integrated into living like this anymore.
That is what failed in the past. Capitalism had too strong power and influence throughout the world so it was a question of time when getting Communism done. When half of the world acts against you, boycotts you can cuts you off from markets and supplies, it is a hard situation which needs to be learned to fight against.
But if the system that exploited all and urged everyone to an egoistic lifestyle crumbles, then it becomes an easier play to erect something of your envisioned entities because there's no-one to stop you effectively.

[red-child.livejournal.com]

In this day and age, it's far easier and often far more promising/adaptive to find a solution that goes beyond straight-to-killing.
With how the present system corrupts and directs people, if you killed everyone you thought was a negative influence... you'd still be left with a decadent and despicable world with people likely to take their place. Same corruption, different belief system.

I'm very proud of you. If society had a new or different structure, 'human nature' would arrive at a different outcome.

[matrixmann]

Killing everyone also would just be the negation of other solutions. Of constructive solutions.
It would be saying "there's nothing one can do anymore, finish".

Otherwise, in another perspective, you should be aware of the fact, if you tried to erase mankind, you should only do this if you were independent of medication of fabricated things that came straight from cicilization. There's going to be nobody there anymore who could go on producing them - if you were dependent on medication then, it would be your guaranteed death.

[red-child.livejournal.com]

Those you tend to aim for killing can still be applied for other things if you're smart about how you handle them. There's a brilliant opportunity in the offerings of imprisoning people. To some extent, if you want to change the world... there will be things you'll have to dodge, override and/or disable. But killing people comes with a huge responsibility, and if you don't change the system they will probably just be replaced by some ambitious or power-hungry individual who's been sitting on the sidelines watching what they were doing.

Erasing mankind would be such a huge waste, collectively and individually the species is a beautiful addition to the complexity and opportunity of the universe. Humans are the only known species with sentient awareness, and their ambition for discovery is a beautiful thing. You'd need more than just independence, you'd need to say goodbye to the idea of accomplishment.

[matrixmann]

I'd dispute that.
If you erect a different system, you also need to take care that not people left from the old system come there again and try to reclaim their former position. In practice you can only overide this for sure if you get this group of people "silenced". And silenced a 100% guaranteed means you need to execute them. And not only them, also their families. Everyone which can come there and think "I'm related by blood to this and this one, so I have the right to... (whatever)".
If you leave this door open, you'll never gonna make it installing something else because practice shows that, whenever these former reigning powers can come back and reclaim their thrones, they gonna do it. They gonna do it at the slightest sign of "I could win". You need to cut that bloodline once and for all if you want peace and no turning back.

My opinion about mankind is not too high and I think I tell no secret saying this. I don't aim for anything that mankind itself calls "beautiful" or anything - I take the basic way to explain why even every misanthropic who hates mankind as much as that he wanted to kill them - why he should stop and think for a moment. Which is what a lot of people don't do, they only crave for releasing their hate and think, when mankind is extinct, their life's going to be much better. But nothing is - it's gonna be much harder because you're gonna lose all the advantages that civilized way of life had. No washing machine, going washing in the river - all day. For example.
More intensive it gets if you're not perfectly healthy. If you're dependent on medication.
Mankind that you as much also produces the pills that keep you alive... It's perfect stupidity if you erase the hand that gives life to you like everything is okay with your physics.