Inbuilt to the system

[matrixmann]

Just an alternative way to approach the gender pay gap discussion:

Don't discuss that women don't get paid as much as their male collegues for performing the same job.
Better discuss that in capitalism each man can be paid a different wage than the other for doing the same job - and this is no crime.

Comments

[onb2017.livejournal.com]

So, it is true what you said. Besides they always keep paychecks secret. So nobody is aware.

However, there is still the truth that women are paid less than men. Yesterday I read about, god damn, I forgot what company, maybe Apple?, I need to look it up, so anyway, first of all they had a gender discrimination that they employed more than 70% of men and second they underpay women.And I saw statistics about 0.7 paid to women for each dollar paid to men.

[matrixmann]

Didn't say that it didn't exist. Only the fuzz some people make around it - instead of lamenting around one of these emotional topics where the answer is clear (when being reasonable), they should become aware of the real core point. It seems like almost all of mankind which raise political demands don't understand how capitalism works.
In capitalism an employer can pay you as much as wants, and if it's three times less than what your colleague earns.
Agreements with the labor union may be able to limit this how much an employer can alter your payment from that of your fellow workers, but it doesn't force him to pay one person and another person the same wage.
He can pay you less than another one for whatever reason, whether you're a woman, whether you have children, whether you have a crooked nose or whether he finds you're part of the wrong religion in his eyes.

That is the normal name of the game - and as long as that stays so, they not gonna make any serious progress in that subject.

[onb2017.livejournal.com]

Well, I agree with you on that one. It doesn't matter what gender. It is another social group that is played like fools along with minorities, gays, religious nut cases etc. The real problem is a class of capitalists, at least in 99% of cases.

[matrixmann]

Yes. That's the focus I'd like best to have on it. Because that is the core, the point that makes all these things possible.

[onb2017.livejournal.com]

Great, agreed on this one.

[red-child.livejournal.com]

Fair pay for fair work is an ideal I notice employers want to claim to. Ir competes with matching pay with position (more responsibility, better income) and the idea that seniority is valued and prodigies for the company's purposes are to be 'bribed' to stay (rewarded for promise).
These factors combine to create the system I'm aware of when I pay attention to income levels. The gender pay gap has never been unveiled to my face. I tend to know, however, women who are ambitious or intelligent, with a concern to their job's actual purpose/needs. They're impressive in capacity, suggesting 'fair pay' to be more encouraged for them. Still, the pay gap is invisible in real-world exposure.

I don't hear that the research weighing income by pay per hour worked, within each role individually, consistency + quality of work impacting raises, number of years in each role for raises' accumulation, by company, and how raises are reflected therein. I've heard of one from a study. Other lists of important values, have also been noted as not involved in research. On the occasions I looked for sourcing... I don't know if they're studying capitalism, it's influence on pay, when they study payment values in a capitalistic setting.

I keep giving the benefit of the doubt, "Perhaps people aren't taking working women's potential seriously enough, perhaps females are still seen as less credible or viable workers over men." The same seems to happen to people who are independent from the norm. When you're too different, the workplace does not treat you fairly.
I heard a few journalists getting shot down on leads even when their story is groundbreaking, it was regardless of sex. It was because they were pursuing things the business did not want to lead on. I do not know if a woman in this position is treated worse for being a woman. I'd certainly like to know, but all I can do is.. I keep my mouth shut on assuming what is and give my claim, "People shouldn't be paid less on grounds of their sex." To show support that, if this problem is real, I don't care for it either. I don't know how to find that it's real.

I'd be inclined to say people are biased and judgmental, capitalist values in the hands of such people give unfair payment systems. Being too ahead of the curve can result in being neglected and denied. Coming from being more right, or having better intuition for the truth, than others often conflicts with views and stands a point of conflict. People do not easily accept being challenged, being told they are missing variables, being told that they have misunderstood information given after having formed an impressive statement based off of what they thought it was proving. These things are threats to others, anyone who does this is at risk of not being paid at a level representative of their worth. You need to stay within a level of obedience.
Progress that changes the game is always undervalued, people paid less than earned often display ideas that show change is needed. This kind of thinking has been intimidating for and degraded by leadership roles for so long, I'm not certain that calling it a 'gender' pay gap isn't negligent of reasons behind the pay gap that, if addressed socially, would actually hasten solving any existing pay gap faster than this bias to blame sexism and misogyny does. Individuals depreciated unjustly by modern society isn't limited to women, women are capable of being that type of individual, however. Most of the women I know who can complain of unfair pay at work... they keep pushing for change, new ideas, challenging projects. It may be progress, but there's a bias that denies that as desirable in a worker. I'm not sure that this tendency to deride originality isn't more pervasive than any sexist leaning to the pay gap. Too many women who support the pay gap needing to be solved with any adamant professing display qualities that I would expect would lose someone their job, after too many displays of it.

But I'm working off of available evidence, which doesn't include what I listed as what I'd imagine should be taken into account to lay the idea of a gender pay gap where it's visible for its actual severity.

[matrixmann]

Hm... I'd think that plays a role too.
You know, if somebody engages into his job too effectively, if he gains too much power and influence among the other employees, especially if he brings forth new ideas and shows signs of resistance if new things come up that result in less advantageous circumstances for the workers in a facility, then, from the side of the employers, they're quickly with getting rid of that worker that could possibly stir up a revolt. If they cannot make it by simply firing him, because of employees' rights or such, then they take out that methods - the psychological mace. Wearing somebody out. This you can achieve by several methods, like playing around with the shift schedule, urging you to react to quick changes in it immediately, always giving you extra work, cutting down your working hours, relocating you to a different activity, if all that does not help to make you leave yourself, the last resort is putting something into your things which actually belongs to the facility - forcefully making you a thief. And thiefs can be fired immediately.