In the America-influenced sphere it's the narrative that the dropping of both bombs saved a lot of peoples' lives because long very bloody battles had been spared to everyone. Saying, it's only a narrative. To justify one's decisions before the own public as "good" and "noble".
As I know it, yes, it was unjustified. Unnessecary. Japan was already in ruin, the couldn't have even won a flower pot anymore. The only thing was the government already was willing to give up, but the military could be expected to rebel against that and do what they want if they surrendered unconditionally especially. So that's allegedly why they had not officially given up until then, I read recently.
You know, the American politicians and the administration in the military are pretty big assholes and they seem to like it. First, they begged Stalin to help them because the war goes too long and exhausts them; then suddenly as he decides to come and assist (not without following his own interests), they suddenly change their mind, acting like "Oh, we didn't mean that seriously!" and they feel like needing to do something against that. To blame for that then is the one who decides to react to their call, not the one who cowardly cries for help.
In some point you can understand Stalin's later paranoia because that much and that often the Americans pulled him over the barrel, and it always almost meant death, you can't just sit still and remain unaffected. You met 10 fools in your life that hurt you badly - you never gonna be able to trust anyone blindly again.
About Japan, that's what I read too but regardless they hardly ever acknowledge the devastation they brought.
And all together first they kind of helped the beast grow and the same beast got their allies and they had no choice to turn to the Soviet Union for help. Yeah, Stalin hysteria keeps on growing. I read those idiots compare Stalin to Hitler all the time. Like they are the same. And people have no idea of facts. Often they refer to 1937, when the purge was happening but the thing is Stalin was not a dictator it was a country of soviets, people's democracy and the agency responsible for purge operations happened to be involved in sabotage. Anti-communist one. And yet, still it is Stalin's fault.
I think with Japan it's also that issue - because that's part of the Pacific War that didn't ultimately affected Europe, it's not often talked about and therefore the myths of the Americans can kick in. Even although, I'm not used to the myth that the bombs saved a lot of peoples' lives. Perhaps it's something you mostly hear overseas and maybe in England. But perhaps I also had a good history teacher.
You know a saying that I know? The American's saw he Nazis killed in the end and contributed their part, but while this happening - or after this happening -, they realized they killed the wrong pig. Stalin had been way more powerful. I also know it that way, the sinking of the trading ships before the American East coast, that was a big mistake of the Nazis to do, otherwise if the war had only lasted in Europe and left them alone with it, only heading for battling CCCP, they would have joined an alliance with the Nazis in their fight. It really politically was the same to them if a lot of people were killed in concentration camps, especially the Jews (American anti-semitism depictured in films and series quote often also doesn't come out of nowhere, right?). To the contrary, if it was about genocide and killing masses of people, you always found a certain crowd advocating this behavior in the United States.
It's all rhetorics what takes place in this time. But because some figures in history were never really linear, rather ambivalent, it is hard telling the truth from the lies. At least for my part, Stalin was paranoid and for sure did some things which cannot consider to have been good, he even did some things which one may not be able to understand (like the integration of the today seperatist parts of Grusiya which actually even then been loyal to Moscow, but even though he integrated them into the ГССР), but what he also was was a thinking politician. He didn't act only out of randomness.
I remember reading something about the war with Finland. Actually, the situation was like this: Sooner or later, the Nazis also would come to Finland (this was as already the other countries of Scandinavia were already occupied). Even then, I think, the situation with the government of that country already was like you were dealing with one of those countries occupied by the Nazis. So - in order to prevent another front facing the Third Reich, he rather chose to be the one who begins the war in order to be more able to control it and be not the one ambushed by another front that suddenly opens up. Someone who reigns only by randomness doesn't act like this. This is strategy.
About Finland, yes, it's true it was a strategic move, because the border was moving closer and closer to Leningrad so in case of war which seemed imminent at the time there was no choice. So it was a preemptive move.
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onb2017.livejournal.com - (no subject) +5 responses
(no subject)
Date: 2 September 2016 01:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2 September 2016 07:48 pm (UTC)Saying, it's only a narrative. To justify one's decisions before the own public as "good" and "noble".
As I know it, yes, it was unjustified. Unnessecary.
Japan was already in ruin, the couldn't have even won a flower pot anymore. The only thing was the government already was willing to give up, but the military could be expected to rebel against that and do what they want if they surrendered unconditionally especially.
So that's allegedly why they had not officially given up until then, I read recently.
You know, the American politicians and the administration in the military are pretty big assholes and they seem to like it.
First, they begged Stalin to help them because the war goes too long and exhausts them; then suddenly as he decides to come and assist (not without following his own interests), they suddenly change their mind, acting like "Oh, we didn't mean that seriously!" and they feel like needing to do something against that. To blame for that then is the one who decides to react to their call, not the one who cowardly cries for help.
In some point you can understand Stalin's later paranoia because that much and that often the Americans pulled him over the barrel, and it always almost meant death, you can't just sit still and remain unaffected.
You met 10 fools in your life that hurt you badly - you never gonna be able to trust anyone blindly again.
(no subject)
Date: 3 September 2016 01:48 pm (UTC)And all together first they kind of helped the beast grow and the same beast got their allies and they had no choice to turn to the Soviet Union for help. Yeah, Stalin hysteria keeps on growing. I read those idiots compare Stalin to Hitler all the time. Like they are the same. And people have no idea of facts. Often they refer to 1937, when the purge was happening but the thing is Stalin was not a dictator it was a country of soviets, people's democracy and the agency responsible for purge operations happened to be involved in sabotage. Anti-communist one. And yet, still it is Stalin's fault.
(no subject)
Date: 3 September 2016 03:31 pm (UTC)You know a saying that I know? The American's saw he Nazis killed in the end and contributed their part, but while this happening - or after this happening -, they realized they killed the wrong pig. Stalin had been way more powerful.
I also know it that way, the sinking of the trading ships before the American East coast, that was a big mistake of the Nazis to do, otherwise if the war had only lasted in Europe and left them alone with it, only heading for battling CCCP, they would have joined an alliance with the Nazis in their fight.
It really politically was the same to them if a lot of people were killed in concentration camps, especially the Jews (American anti-semitism depictured in films and series quote often also doesn't come out of nowhere, right?). To the contrary, if it was about genocide and killing masses of people, you always found a certain crowd advocating this behavior in the United States.
It's all rhetorics what takes place in this time.
But because some figures in history were never really linear, rather ambivalent, it is hard telling the truth from the lies.
At least for my part, Stalin was paranoid and for sure did some things which cannot consider to have been good, he even did some things which one may not be able to understand (like the integration of the today seperatist parts of Grusiya which actually even then been loyal to Moscow, but even though he integrated them into the ГССР), but what he also was was a thinking politician. He didn't act only out of randomness.
I remember reading something about the war with Finland.
Actually, the situation was like this: Sooner or later, the Nazis also would come to Finland (this was as already the other countries of Scandinavia were already occupied).
Even then, I think, the situation with the government of that country already was like you were dealing with one of those countries occupied by the Nazis. So - in order to prevent another front facing the Third Reich, he rather chose to be the one who begins the war in order to be more able to control it and be not the one ambushed by another front that suddenly opens up.
Someone who reigns only by randomness doesn't act like this. This is strategy.
(no subject)
Date: 3 September 2016 05:01 pm (UTC)About purges, there is an article. Sorry it is long but it describes what was happening in 1930 more or less.
https://stalinsocietygb.wordpress.com/2016/03/08/the-purges-of-the-cpsu-in-the-1930s/
(no subject)
Date: 3 September 2016 06:03 pm (UTC)