Like after WWII

[matrixmann]

If developing the idea of mixed school year tuition in school even only on a federal level because there are not enough students to fill the year classes, does that mean you're a rich country?

Comments

[onb2017.livejournal.com]

Tuition for secondary education? In public schools?

[matrixmann]

I don't know how you mean that, but I remember having a hard time myself expressing what is exactly meant in German.
Subject is mixed school lessons of classes differing in school year. Like, you've got a 4th and a 5th grade doing their math lessons together in one class room. The 4th graders getting tasks according to their school year in the subject, the 5th graders getting tasks according to their school year in the subject.
Just like after WWII where you put all children in one class room because of space problems, because you maybe had one school in an area with 5 villages which hadn't been destroyed by bombs and which could supply teachers at all for it.

Only these days the proposings come from the thought of wanting to close schools down because of costs. Let students of different age classes receive their tuition in public education all together in one class room to get the class rooms filled and economized.

Was somehow a suggestion that came up on a regional level - came from Thuringia for their territory (as public education here is a subject of the federal states...) or so. Any of the Southern federal states that once belonged to the GDR.

[onb2017.livejournal.com]

Oh, since I read a lot about college debt, I though by tuition you meant a fee. But you mean curriculum. So, they shrank the curriculum because they don't have money in the budget. Familiar story. Everywhere. By the way I read somewhere about unprecedented budget that Germany allocated to military expenses this year. I don't remember the source now. So it is better to say that it is like before WW III. They have money but for different purposes.

[matrixmann]

No, it's not cutting down curriculum, like stealing school years from you in your education process.
It's... Instead of having two classrooms and two teachers because classes in differing years normally get schooled seperately, putting both classes in one room because seperately the classes would be really small, like up 15 people or so. By putting them together, you'd get 30 people into one room again, save one room and one teacher. But, the differing school years of the kids remain. Still they'd remain 4th and 5th graders.
Cannot explain this much better in English, in German the terms are more exactly and one can less confuse them...

Those ideas, in the East, are based on the fact that there are not so many children around anymore to be schooled like still in the 90s and at the beginning of the millennium. This is because, first, during the 90s, there's been a mass exodus of former GDR-citizens towards the "glorious West Germany", this drain has never ever been seriously refilled again, so the general population became less. Second, as the long-term impacts of the closing down of the former actories and places of work came into effect, a lot of people moved West because of wanting to get a job. This whole West German culture of living in one space and working 300km far away kicked in. Understandable that enough people also moved completely with their families anytime.
And third, people don't have as much time and like to have kids lesser than still in the 90s in general in whole Germany.
So, the numbers of kids to be schooled became less and less until some schools really became economically obsolete.
Guess what they did? Closed them down.
Meanwhile because the promised jobs by the West German government never came, it's only been the poor and the unwilling people in the East which remained there which, over time, cut big holes into te budgets of the communities, counties and the federal states. So, the need to close more and more state-fostered and public facilities came. Up until this really develops perverse blossoms, seen from the point of practical usability.
Like closing down schools and young students can even end up with long ways to go by bus to school every day. Which very highly effects your reserves for learning as you're much longer on the road every day.

Say, that's also a reason for why the campaigning of the central government in Berlin for their refugee project isn't very well-received in the Eastern regions (at least I think so).
Now, for some people of unknown origin, and where clearly also a lot of scum and crminals come in with, they move heaven and hell to present themselves as an open country with high tolerance to other lifestyles and skin colors, and for their own people they got empty phrases to offer and care for nothing of their problems. Always tell them "we got no money, solve this yourself - at best: for free", but for obvious political projects like that there seems to be money coming out of nowhere. Even in the federal states (the communities lesser). And all who critisize this point, reasonable or not, get called a Nazi for more than a year to get those arguments against off the table like put under the carpet.

During the financial crisis 2008/2009 it was no different as there were severe means of money there to bail out some system-relevant banks, but there never is any money available to make like for children under Hartz IV social benefits beter whose masses of poor children grow and grow over the decades.

Same now with the skirmishes in Eastern Europe that the NATO does.

[onb2017.livejournal.com]

Oh, ok now I get it. I wonder, I think I already asked you. Do people in Eastern Germany regret? I mean media is still propagating the idea that everyone was extremely happy when they broke the Wall and still celebrating. But I saw a survey that like 60% or maybe more, I don't remember the number, Eastern Germans want to live in a socialist country. Knowing the difference. Whereas western hate it due to anti-socialist propaganda.

[matrixmann]

Can't speak for all, but the impression that I have, if you ask people in a personal atmosphere with no camera, you'll find more people regretting the end of the GDR than people welcoming it. - Among those who have really lived in it as adults with the daily practice.
Well, what do you guess why I already brought up the term "annexion" a few times? If I take a look at it politcally, things pretty much stink like annexion, not like a free choice. One day, maybe it'll come out. But for sure at a time when barely anyone's alive again who could make a fuzz about it. Betting all your money on the factor "time" - that's also a way of winning a game.

Although I must say, with all the hyper-paranoid secret service apparatus still in the background, the GDR wouldn't be my state to live too. Just like this one now isn't like a home. One state looks at me with eyes suspecting me of crime because I know stuff about human abysses and I have no mental problems with guns, the other one would do so too.
If that would be different, also the workplace moral not like Lutheran working moral - "no work, you carry no value as a creature, therefore you must always work until you die" - maybe it would be a pick worth trying. As long as not, I won't have a homecountry. Surroundings that reject me in every way I am and tell me all the time that I think the wrong way? This is not a home, this a battlefield of war.

[onb2017.livejournal.com]

I don't know much, maybe it was more like late Soviet Union. Then yeah, it is pretty much restored capitalism otherwise if you move towards the last stage, there should be less work and more really meaningful free time. And I think they were building the society towards it until 1950s and then Khrushchev and revisionism and it kind of went to hell.

Part I

[matrixmann]

Rumor is that Gorbi even directly sold the GDR for foreign credits, but I really have no idea if it's still a thing from the lands of weird conspiracy theories or if someone really knows about anything.

Well, the things that I can find are: If you look at it a little closer, the whole turnaround process looks like repeating the events of the upheaval on June 17th in 1953 in Berlin. Only this time West Germany knew, there are no Soviet tanks to come to stop the havoc. Have some text around here under the tag "eastern row" where I researched and wrote something about that event out of rage because I was pissed about hearing the international cheer about the fall of the Berlin Wall here and that by people who never even lived here for a day.
You know, the freedom of places like this here is: You can write your own part of the story. That's what I did.

Even already that event West Germany tried to make his own badge on the jacket. Heritage of that is that once West Germany's national holiday was on June 17th until the turnaround. (I know it only from reading and maybe hearing.) Surely to turn it into a favorable direction for them.
But, the upheaval was cut short - something that also seemed like nobody internatinally was prepared for that kind of reaction.
Another time something like this, you could bet your ass on that Soviet tanks are gonna come up again...
But, with a Soviet Union like in the 80s, you probably know as much as me, this had already been wishful thinking.
So - a blank ticket to do whatever you want to do, nobody's gonna stop you from it...

I know too less about that issue about the people who fled to the embassy in Prague; only thing that's known to me from tales is: People who did a stunt like this, came crying they want to leave the GDR, they sometimes even came there with their own car and cried around how evil the regime is that they want to leave. In socialism traveling with you own car! Everyone knows how expensive they were and you needed to wait like 15 years for it, so these people weren't poor! And then sometimes they left behind houses and farms. Houses - even propaganda still tells these days that the GDR had no material for private building! So, what are you if you have a house that is build in a system that has no material for the free market? Yes, you're a fucking rich fucker.
Your throat's already full and you still can't get enough...


The issue in Hungary with the timely-limited border opening I know more.
People who were in Hungary on vacation at the time this was report themselves how much you were molested by people telling and urging you to cross over the border. It's just not only conspirational talking by Honecker and his associates.
Next thing is, the even happened somehow in cooperation with some CSU member (Bavarian equivalent to the conservative CDU) - West German politician, do bells already ring? Free choice? Border opening advised to GDR citizens specifically? You betcha.

It's a little hard finding anything about this concretely. Even struggled myself to find a term under which you find that topic exactly. "Paneuropäisches Picknick" is the German term where I see it is about the border opening in action in Hungary. - Ah, "Pan-European Picnic", I see, they also call it internationally (just looked it up). Officially a "peace rally", but if you go through the content and know its meaning in the international context, then you know the true nature.

Re: Part I

[onb2017.livejournal.com]

Probably, lots of rumors about it, I wouldn't doubt I also heard something like this.

Re: Part I

[matrixmann]

At least all those things I can even find anything about at Wikipedia, those are enough for me to create that assumption. - And I need to give the advise regarding that platform, which I have come across: The English entries are often pretty much what you expect of Western history writing about these events.
The German entries often enough offer more information, and that information that they contain just makes it more possible to get a rather critical opinion. Maybe, concerning if you already have a suspective position before or if you already got a bit of "not written in the history books of the winner"-knowledge.

Re: Part I

[onb2017.livejournal.com]

Thanks, honestly, I just scanned the second part, I will read it carefully this weekend and give you some thoughts.

Re: Part I

[onb2017.livejournal.com]

Here I am. So sounds very similar to what happened in the late Soviet Union. And people actually willingly took the red flag off the Kremlin. In fact I had a guy in my journal who said that because of propaganda he was the one to cheer and do such a thing and then he learnt what it was really. The thing is that by that time it was pretty much inevitable, people got that petty-bourgeois mentality when they wanted jeans and bubble gum and all that crap. Didn't realized what they were loosing but at the time it was too late, anyway.

Re: Part I

[matrixmann]

Might be.
As far as I get the thing, even if the West hadn't planted his own plans in between all this, something would have needed to change ain both states, in the whole Soviet block, anyway.
As the Soviet Union in the 80s also slowly growing got sick and rotten from the inside from its own members in the state which used it and their jobs in trustful positions for their own dirty businesses. And as, since Хрущёв had died, there had really been lack of a leader with a profile in politics and personally in the Soviet Uniion. (I know it as far from tales that after he died, the next one in the row didn't live very long, about a year or so, and I think, if I'm not totally mistaken, the next one also didn't stay very long from the reason of dying - and then it already was Gorbis turn.)
Something had to happen anyway, West or not.

Part II

[matrixmann]

All these events happened before the Wall fell. All highly questionable events in the matter of "people showed the government its will", if you look at the further background.
If you ask me, it all looks like the prototype of what later became the famous "color revolutions". If you really take all the events of a wider circle together.

I also know, as people started hitting the streets with protests, they didn't scream "unite Germany!" at first. They were all for "Shitty government, stop doing your thing without asking us! Fuck off, you old skeletons - let some younger people enter reign who're not come from your elite circles!".
In concrete, it was just a fight between a government and its own citizens. The government was doing shitty business and the citizens demanded radical change from them. This didn't include giving up one's own state and unite with West Germany!

Other factor that may also add why that time and year: Franz Josef Strauß, prime minister of Bavaria, he actually had pretty good economical ties with the GDR - and he was pretty much a gangster as a politician. He knew how to get his will even with illegal means. Therefore he was feared in some way.
There was also a credit he gave to the GDR (today one knows: They used the credit to pay off other credits with worse conditions and even put a little reserve on an account in a Swiss bank, for the sake of that the GDR should get into financial troubles one day.)
Strauß died in 1988.
As long as he had lived, he surely wouldn't have let other people destroy his economical partners he makes a lot of profit from.
With him gone, another component gone that would strongly act against the trials to stir up a revolution.

If you put the puzzle together, things point into a planned action...
Could maybe name more, already as far as I know, but I save it for another time.

Re: Part II

[onb2017.livejournal.com]

You see, the thing with socialism, you cannot trust politicians, party, any authority to rule the country. It should be a dictatorship of proletariat, meaning the representatives of people delegate their will but otherwise people themselves do the politics, starting from little factory- every worker decides what is the best, then it goes to a higher level but it is still representatives of working people. I don't think in theory there should be even designated politicians, no it is part of your responsibility to participate in politics. People did not want they left it to the Party and it eventually got corrupted and all these things happening and Gorbachev and others are just opportunists, they just used the situation to their advantage.

Re: Part II

[matrixmann]

One thing that I know in general about "positons with responsibilities", this still is even this way today, barely you could find anyone who was willing and ready to do such jobs. Lots of people nagged and complained, but barely anyone was ready to take the responsibility upon his shoulders to assume an administrative function. Save the extra hours you've got to do in your free time when being politically active...
This attitude you can still find present in people today. So I don't guess this only has to do with "yeah, then the party rules what I have to do and how I have to do it...". This also has to do with some sort of general laziness.

Actually, how they understood the parliamentary contract at all, that's a thing I don't have any idea about.
Practically, other circumstances were reality than what should have actually been there, I can be sure about that. But how that was understood in general, how it should be in theory at least, that's a question I can't answer...