Self-evidences (and their role in producing quarrel)

[matrixmann]

You know something that's annoying every time it happens?
When you say something that rocked someone's boat and ultimately you just get banned for it right away. Completely leaving you without the possibility to respond "you took this all with your right half of the brain and with your locally-shaped cultural world view" and to point at the possibility that there can be other general mindsets out there under which you can interpret it.
This is so... Western internet outrage culture.
And no, I won't defend the Eastern Europeans against that or color them prettier.
Those have their other reasons why they snap at you quickly if they do.

It is annoying because it is the quick way to get rid of everything unpleasant and not needing to listen to anything that doesn't support the own filter bubble. There never happens a fact-check if that person really meant what the banner thought it is.
All just... emotion. "I want to be enraged". "I don't want to get to know that people can be different the way I imagine the world to be - I just want the world to be like I imagine it and execute some control over it."
Some kind of "overcoming the own powerlessness"-shit...

To all who might feel talked to by this: You know what? Ever thought that really everyone who speaks something that a category of idiots in your cultural circle would say too exactly is an idiot of that kind like you know?
That the world is a homogeneous place where all people think and are mentally structured like in your place, your country, your sphere?
This is even more prejudice than any obvious narrow-minded person could reveal.

And exactly this is why there is a need to not shut up if you don't fit into that category.
Point them people every time at this! Point them every time at it and emphasize "you take something for granted that isn't self-evident"!
You can do this the civilized way, no need for rage or big drama - as it leads to the serious question if it will have any effect at all if you bloat it with the same emotions that your counterpart used to give you a rebuke.
If they rage, make them crazy with diplomacy. Don't join their games. The psychological game is the effect that a brain consciously and/or unconsciously pursues.
Reacting on it will make you spin in an endless circle of blaming and shaming and bouncing those two back and forth. Which will lead to nothing in the end.
React with the left half of your brain and remain respectful, while trying to point at it tactfully "you can keep your life achievements, I haven't come to take anything from you".
Respect has the chance of impression anyone, while rage and precast judgments haven't.
No-one likes to be talked at in a loud voice! You know the verdict behind it anyway, otherwise someone wouldn't shout at you...

I wished more people knew a little about the psychological part of communication.
This could reduce the steady outrages and ranting about the other groups one is not part of.
And I mean "ranting" in the sense of "complaining about a group with automatic raise of the value of own self-assumed virtues". You know, narrow-minded narcissistic bullshit that thinks in "we're better than them simply because we're better than them"... Self-praise that looks at one's ego before real deeds. Preoccupation, partisanship... That kind of thing.
Not the "I try to soberly criticize you".
Psychology about communication would teach to keep all of these things in the back of your head about "don't think everyone in the world carries the same meaning of a word/phrase/idea around in its head". And this didn't apply only to text speech, it also was valid for verbal speech where you see all the gesticulation.

At least, it would be my guessing and maybe my silent hope that it would lead to people more trying to understand between the lines what a person exactly means instead of feeding one's ego about what one believes he meant and showering him with one's cultural and personal enemy images in a blow before he can say anything if he agrees or disagrees with the given title.
'Cause this is really a problem in all this shouting and holding reproaches against each other.
If everyone thinks he's right, well, then you know what comes out of it... They call it "civil war". People fighting against people. Ordinary people...

Comments

[maadmike.livejournal.com]

Do you believe that Western Europeans differ much from Eastern in an attitude of communication, argue and so on.
We have some stereotypes here in Russia that some of our nations are more conflict, unprincipled but when I see a well-educated man - no matter what is his nationality he is intelligent and having many wise ways to advance one's interests, views, wishes. So, I think, it is all a matter of education and culture...

[matrixmann]

Well, that's why I don't want to sugarcoat people who are from the Eastern half of the world. I know better to remember I've also seen hostility from them online; stupidity and bad social behavior exists everywhere in the world.

What I only find very specifically different between both is: Westerners are so much occupied by their own culture and the viewpoints it habors towards things. It's literally impossible to make them understand "hey, wait! That's this way IN YOUR SPHERE!".
Probabilities are like zero to get it into their heads "other places in the world function according to different rules, and that doesn't make them automatically less virtuous or lets the world go down in them!".
I think, as a Russian yourself, you must know what I mean, right?

They constantly judge everything with the socialization they have experienced in Western culture, without ever stumbling upon the idea themselves to take a step back and look at things from a more distant point of view.
Saying, they are like unable to think out of the box - unable to think in different patterns than they learned from their own culture.
Only their culture has "freedom", is "fair" and what not, all others are like the opposite of that.

I don't know what to call this... "Uneducated about the world" seems like too harmless to me. "Stupid" or "childish" or "naive" seems the same way too.
It's like... a certain arrogance.
Uneducated about the world, unable to image other places can function differently than theirs, and then they're so arrogant to take it for granted that the whole world must be like the microcosm they know, otherwise this place is shit and must be changed (into practicing their customs!).

I think two good examples for this are LGBT rights and religious freedom.
Personally, I don't want a society where everybody can freely rub me his ego in the face and I don't want to rub my ego into other peoples' faces. I don't want to know about who they pray to, bow down to or who they bang. For me, it's getting molested, when that happens. And I think there's much more important stuff in this world than just making a fuzz about the own ego throughout the freaking day.
Only a couple of things I want: If I do something in a different way than the average, nobody can throw me into jail for it, nobody can beat me up for it, nobody can lawfully forbid me to live what I think I need to live. And, when I go about speaking about it like all other people about their lives, that nobody can order me lawfully to shut my mouth because some freaking group of this society things it's sinful or even "dangerous".
That's all. Acceptance and safety.
For that, I don't need gay prides where people dress like in Cologne carnival and drag queens. For that, I don't need a culture that makes a fuzz about it every time someone confesses he's gay.

And for that, I also don't need a culture that excuses every another dubious religion's customs, even if they hack hands off or rape children and sell that as "common practice" in their religion.
Neither do I need people insisting on their Gods all the time and drawing them as reasons why they don't need to do this or that, just like another person without a faith.

The more people publicly are able to feed and present their egos aggressively, the worse the social behavior of the whole community gets - because everyone then lives like "you've go to eat my shit without complaining!". Everyone becomes an asshole then because he can.
Such general custom I can definitely do without!

But I see "culture celebrating ego" and "being different from the rest" are two different things. Last thing can definitely exist in a society, and be accepted, but without all the loud mumbo jumbo.

For purely Western-raised people, this is like something totally impossible to differentiate. If you don't support the ego culture too, then you're hostile to minority rights and religion, you don't let people live as they want...

NONSENSE, I say!

[maadmike.livejournal.com]

"Probabilities are like zero to get it into their heads "other places in the world function according to different rules, and that doesn't make them automatically less virtuous or lets the world go down in them!".
I think, as a Russian yourself, you must know what I mean, right?"

We “Russians” as the Westerns like to call us are the citizens of one federation and are very different cause it is impossible to draw a line through Russia - here it is the East and here it is the West – South -North where the people differ somehow, if we look at history of Russia we will see that many countries of EU were part of Russia and vs at different times. That's why I doubt there are some profuse differences in people's behavior.

We have different nations which react differently on different problems or issues, plus we have different groups of age and they also tend to act different. It is very difficult to discuss some reactions of Russians without a theme, I do believe.

[matrixmann]

Well, this is already one nice aspect that you name there which in Western talking has a flaw.
First, Russians are always suspect to doing anything they don't like. Even if somebody doesn't boast about having literally eaten the Cold War propaganda, still they mostly act like they have. It's hard finding someone from the English-speaking sphere who doesn't behave like that.
In Europe, this seems a little different as a couple of nations and people that live in it already had contact with Russian people. Even if that was only through economical relationships.

And the second thing is: As I see it while reading, there are only "Russians" as a whole. No differing between different areas even Russian people come from. So to say, Caucasus is the same like people from Moscow like people from Kamchatka.
I trace that back personally to the general lack of education about Russia itself and about the rest of the world outside of their own sphere.
(Although, relativized, this also happens with different areas in the world by other people.
Asia, seen with the eyes of Europeans, tends to be regarded as one and the same people, although this is factually incorrect.
People from Asia tend to see Europe as one tribe, although this isn't correct too, of course.)

[maadmike.livejournal.com]

“Probabilities are like zero to get it into their heads "other places in the world function according to different rules, and that doesn't make them automatically less virtuous or lets the world go down in them!".
I think, as a Russian yourself, you must know what I mean, right?”

I’d head somewhere the info the Russian women told about French men that they are very closed that their interests are based in clean new shirts, perfume and so on but it is a side seeing, I think. Cause many Russians are closed in their little worlds too, some in business, some in poverty, some in alcohol. I don’t know how much Russians are opened to the world, youngsters maybe are more but aged people are not care much about the problems of other people. I can say that Russians are not talking much about the politics of other countries. We have some everyday propaganda on TV which is forcing us to care but in reality common people are living about their own problems…

[matrixmann]

If you pick the majority here, I think they're also pretty closed to the rest of the world and everything fundamentally different than their sphere. I know because I tend to complain inside of me about that too...

A difference between Russian people and Western people even though I think I see in that point. Westeners automatically assume you share their positions, beliefs and social customs, even if it turns out you're a foreigner and you just learned to speak their language - wheras Russians, if they notice you're not from their sphere, they're more like "okay, you're from somewhere else in the world, that explains your behaving different from us if you do". Like... it is that they notice you're not from their sphere, and as soon as they realize, they don't expect you to think the same like them.
I don't know how to say... It's like accepting "okay, you can view things differently than us".

If you meet Russians who are a little or moderately educated about the world, they automatically seem to take it into account that other places in the world can function differently than their home.
Like - I can be relatively safe to not be judged as a person according to Russian viewpoints onto social topics (politics maybe).

With Westerners I feel like there's almost always the unquestioned arrogance in the room like they think they have found the ultimate definition of freedom and the way to live like if you wanna be free - and this is what it mostly circles around when they talk about politics.
Steadily stirring in one's own juice...
West Germans seem the same way to me. At least those which I see speaking online.
It's always about spinning in circles in one's own juice and never taking a step back from things to look "How did other people/nations do that (pest and present)?".

I really miss that with my mindset.