The Afghanistan war of the West ends with defeat

[matrixmann]

As much as the Afghanistan war remained an apple of discord throughout the whole time of the 20 years the occupation of the Western troops lasted because of the shady reasons it was started with, it also simultaneously and silently became a train you couldn’t just jump off anymore and quit tomorrow.

Now with their departure, the tactical and political changes of the coming weeks and months will be a proof of that - and, at the same time, it will lay down the sad record of that the two biggest and strongest armies in modern history - the US army + its NATO associates and the Soviet Army - couldn’t rip out the root of exaggerated Islamic religion in this region and create a united country called “Afghanistan” that can claim its rank in the modern world order.
Be that that the religious extremism was just started and about to be strengthened (the Afghanistan war of the Soviet Union) or that it is a result of past foreign engagements gone wrong (the support of the US for the mujaheddin fighters in the 80s to make the Soviet Union fall; the support of the Syrian rebels, which were mostly if not entirely Islamic extremists as well, and by that helping creating the Islamic State, strengthening Islamic religious motivated terrorism and systematic violence on the whole and in the whole Middle East area) and that it outgrows one’s own powers and finances that one was originally willing to sacrifice for this endeavor (the Afghanistan war of the US and the NATO troops that were still deployed there).

It’s hard to guess how much the decay inside these big players make out a share in their respective defeat...
As a question to those two wars you can leave behind if how war itself is being led in these modern times hasn’t changed too much from the scheme of firm organized and equipped armies fighting each other on the battlefield, as it still was the case in WWII and its later offshoots around the world.

For this specific case, you can put on the record - as bitter, brutal and cynical it may sound: As long as the residents of this country who aren’t involved in religious extremism aren’t willing themselves to take a different path, to organize and do something to drive this out of their country, to rip this root of war and violence out in their society once and for all and harshly sanction it, as long as they rather flee abroad or to Europe, giving in to the order that a guerrilla army imposes on them - as long as that remains the case, this country won’t ever be peaceful and “free” again (whatever anyone wants to imagine under the term “free”).

That Afghanistan which even received a seat in the Intercosmos program and could see one of their citizens fly into space to the Mir station will be missing for a very, very long time now...

Comments

[maadmike.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't call this retreat as a total defeat. Yes, if to look on USA as on ordinary national country then, yes, it's strange what were their goals there to start with... to seize Usama — it's a laugh cause he wasn't even there, to fight terrorism — it's a laugh cause all know very well Americans were standing behind nearly all late terrorism groups as Taliban they were organized against USSR as ISIS they were figting with for years and spent billions of dollars only Hollywood maybe knows where and for what, as a vengeance fot 9.11 — it's again a laugh cause all know they were organized 9.11 by themselves to earn on double terrorism insurance and to start a war for oil...
So, it was a war but a business project for money laundering and if to look on this war in this respect even if not to mention how many drugs were produced at Afghanistan and transported out by USA control, if simply to look on how many money for spent for nowhere this project will play with other bright lights...

[matrixmann]

Well, if to be exact, then it's an official retreat followed by a rollback towards the way things were before the military endeavor. - In the end, it's to become the same result.

How to judge this further, I guess, time will tell.
Because it will be a question what this rolback will cause in the surrounding countries and areas. You see, after ISIS needed to withdraw from Syria, this now is a signal that strengthens the extreme and violently enforced forms of Islam. This will also be observed by other people with the same mindset.
What are they doing to do with that...?
Exactly that will be a question of time...

[maadmike.livejournal.com]

"In the end, it's to become the same result."

Again, in the end how much money were spent? Billions? If to remember how US corruption sistem work in a case of Biden stolen money at laughable Ukrainian deals when we could imagine how much Americans unstoppably printed money were stolen as at Syria as in Afghanistan...
So, no things are not at the same result, at least not for USA. Yes, of course, dollar is not their national currency if to take in account that government borrowing it from private company and anyway, strangly Americans in debts for all these games...

[matrixmann]

A lot of costs already come together because the campaign lasted for ca. 20 years.
Syria doesn't have that duration yet, although I can imagine it could even get more costly because - how much did they invest in all those dozens and dozens of militant Islamist groups?
(And then, the US even had its own costly "training program", which send only a hand full of fighters off to Syria, but cost a ton, compared to the result.)
I think, even years ago, the talk was already about "billions". - Very, very lots of financial debt to the Saudi royal family... (Even their Afghanistan support campaign in the 80s already had to be financed by the Saud family because the US was too poor on its own.)
And Saudi Arabia wasn't the only country they involved in please doing the war for them. Turkey, for example, still didn't receive its promised piece of the cake, and that's why they keep going in this mess too. Silently pushing forward wherever they can.

[maadmike.livejournal.com]

"I think, even years ago, the talk was already about "billions". "

I do believe Americans are the extreme experts in stealing their own money and time, they absolutely do not give afact what to use as a cover for their national or lately trangendernatioanal policy, would it be the Hollywood special operation to colonize Moon, the decades war with aliens with several excavators to bet destroyed — no matter, business is business and Biden has never bidden...

[matrixmann]

Well, what do they get hammered into their heads since they are toddlers? "Get rich, no matter the way how" - and this is even only taken from the original religious roots that the US is subject to.
Puritanism just talks about "finding out throughout one's life through work if you're destined to get into paradise after death,or hell" and "success means that you are destined to get to paradise", no matter what you are successful in or with and get rich with.
According to that logic, being a successful gangster is nothing wrong with morally. Successful gangsters get to paradise too.

[maadmike.livejournal.com]

Yes, I've heard about this but in my modest opinion it is the simplifying of USA... I don't know what word to use, religion — no — they have no main national religion but businesses, culture — no again — they don't have no common culture.. anyway USA even as a someone business project has many immigrants and lately through the will of dem elites to conquer once and forever white Christian USA they are rising Catholics Hispanic immigrants to have no problems on elections, so no USA is realy different in all respect and to claim puritans in their degradation is nonsense. I couldn't tell what's wrong with USA but it is certainly the constant lie they are multiply on all the level and yes, the wish to get results even when it was necessary to accept a failure... i see this at least features as the main in their late Afghanistan operation compliance triumth roots...

[matrixmann]

Talking about Puritanism in the case of the US is more a matter of following back to its foundation. The base that helped bring forth all their important influential billionaire dynasties from the present day that try to reign the US today by purchasing politicians and trying to influence the public discourse through financing activist and advocate groups.

[maadmike.livejournal.com]

"The base that helped bring forth all their important influential billionaire dynasties from the present day that try to reign the US today by purchasing politicians and trying to influence the public discourse through financing activist and advocate groups."

I am absolutely certain that all these billioners would emerged if USA has not played its role in WW2 so precisely accurate and has got the instruments from GB as the ports as the world currency which has given them Americans to parasite on these factors. Plus, investments in wars around the world had pushed cspital and men behind it to USA as a country of rich... If it was not all that late prosperity people would have plunged in poverty long ago and would have started revolution already. But now, even now, elites of USA managed to direct anger of some small into issues as Black criminals lives matters or gay's ass first something like transagenda...

[matrixmann]

Ever heard such a name like "Vanderbilt" or so?
That's the kind of dynasties I'm talking about.
Those dynasties of rich families which have been there since the very beginning... and didn't die out or vanish from confiscation of their riches until today.

[maadmike.livejournal.com]

No, I haven't heard anything, this from Internet..

Vanderbilts
The Vanderbilts are a family of American millionaires. Cornelius Vanderbilt (1794-1877) - the founder of the family. William Henry Vanderbilt (1821-1885). Cornelius II (1843-1899). Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney (1875-1942) - sculptor and philanthropist who founded the Whitney Museum of American Art. Alfred Gwynn Vanderbilt I (1877-1915). Alfred Gwynn Vanderbilt II (1912-1999). Alfred Gwynn Vanderbilt III (born 1943). James Vanderbilt (born 1975) is a screenwriter. Reginald Claypool Vanderbilt (1880-1925).

[matrixmann]

I've gotten to know the name as once having had to search for the manual of the old game "Railroad Tycoon".
That featured a lot of historical things and facts about how railroads once managed to become that mean of mass transportation that it is known as.
Among that were some leading investors of the time named which made railroad "a big thing" in North America.
One of those early moguls was Cornelius Vanderbilt (as the founder of the Vanderbilt family in America as it's known today).

The money making in the US started very, very early - that's what I learned from that (involuntarily).

[maadmike.livejournal.com]

"The money making in the US started very, very early - that's what I learned from that (involuntarily)."

There is nothing wrong in money making while they are real equivalent of hard work, the problems start when some thinking about themselves as about more clever are starting to manipulate with all the financial sistem and to organize one corruption scheme under another to force government to report about tremendous achievements and cover naked ass with more and more green paper...
It does no good not for common people, not for any industry, not for country... But while celebration goes all seems happy and very satisfied...

[matrixmann]

"There is nothing wrong in money making while they are real equivalent of hard work"

Exactly that is what it wasn't like in that time.
It was the scheme of vulture capitalism that is so famous today.
It was "someone buys a firm with the capital he has on his hands, and pulls it out of the firm again as soon as the satisfaction he gains from it is gone, or when he's "done" with that firm; usually it's being sold for profit - and equipped with that profit and enlarged amount of capital, the "investor" headed out to buy the next firm, put all his money in it, and pull it out again one day if he feels the zenith of value has been reached".

So-called "vulture capitalism" is a very, VERY old scheme. It's a strong pillar that the United States are held by!

[maadmike.livejournal.com]

"So-called "vulture capitalism" is a very, VERY old scheme. It's a strong pillar that the United States are held by!"

Yes, I agree and want to add the it is the people on very top are destroying the basement of capitalism — stable currency as a blood and competition as an energy while they printing unstoppablly. Yes, they are playing cool in a matter of mechanisms they are using to take out masses of dollars out of world market by letting creditors some percent but it will not work for eternity of course and, it seems, all world in awe is waiting when time comes....

[maadmike.livejournal.com]

I remember once I spoke with some American at LJ claiming his is Christian and gay, so to put aside his own illogical ideas about being gay and fare Christian I was asking him, how on Earth any of American politics could say they are Christians and lie on everyday basis? So, my American opponent had told me about one special case something like, that this lying politics is like a srctet service agent and he is lying for to win the war. And I am like but if he wasn't lying for everbody there was no war!? And he is like —
you do not understand a bit and nobidy is paying me to spend time to tell you what's what...
So, yes all last decades of USA is based on lie about 9.11 and they couldn't stop lying. They are like in a circle, all were lying before and you will not get on ruling positions if you will not repeat all the absurd told before even if whole world is laughing loud about your Idiocy...

[matrixmann]

I think I once heard it put fairly well in Russian circles: United States, the land of the (and founded by) by imposters and tricksters.
This puts it very accurate why some things are the way they are in America politically. - The whole "project" has been founded on dishonesty and gangsterness.
So it comes together that even the ordinary people in the US don't know a different way "to be", to behave, than to behave like phony.

[maadmike.livejournal.com]

"So it comes together that even the ordinary people in the US don't know a different way "to be", to behave, than to behave like phony"

If it would be so easy then all in Australia should sit in jail... but with so obvious corruption and with not logic harm politicians of Australia is doing to their economy to please USA it is adequate country.

I am thinking more that USA is betrayed by elite with third reasons that's why they — rich are massively buying property as far as possible from USA.... They do better believe in its collapse than will spend energy on changing the course of this modetn Titanic.

[matrixmann]

Well, regard it from that position: Buying a house and property in differing places of the world still is far cheaper than to repair a sinking ship.
And rich people always think in "What's the cheapest way for me?".

[maadmike.livejournal.com]

"And rich people always think in "What's the cheapest way for me?"."

Yes, that's why they are rich and suckcessfull. It is just wirk this way — no mercy or you'll be soon out of game...

What is interesting here to me is if to compare USA to my country which was going through numerous turmoils to start with 1917, we had always enough people really wanted to help no matter what situation was, who were these people, what they had in common... I don't know... Christianity... I am not sure, not after revolution... strong will, maybe, certain the main feature of them is the honesty as to others as to themselves. Such people were fighting at civil war of 1917 at both sides, after they were fighting at ww2, after they were developing country from ruins believing that their children ir grandchildren will live as humans and so on and on, they were not reach and powerful in masses that's for sure...

[matrixmann]

I think I get what you mean here...
Russia - in whatever way it existed - could always recover and reform itself because there were enough people willing out there to do the right thing at the right time and not accept the bad pathway which their society and state was drifting at.
Whereas in the US, you don't find that much of that, if you look for it... Perhaps a lot of gullible people who would be willing to do that, but these lack the consciousness of the consequences of their acting - and a direction which they want to head at as well.
America is full of lone fighters which can't seem to agree on anything or quarrel at the slightest bit of dispute...